Newcastle A Big Club? Don’t Make Me Laugh
February 26th, 2006 by David FoxIt?s hard not to be consistently surprised by the complete un-truths most football fans will readily swallow. But there?s one, along with the ?Michael Owen will score you twenty Premiership goals a season? fallacy that really irritates me, and that is Freddy Shepherd?s assertion that the Newcastle managers job is ?one of the biggest in world football?.
I?m sorry Freddy; can you repeat that? One of the biggest in world football, really? Well that makes sense, I guess, since your team regularly wins trophies?oh wait, no, it doesn?t.
The strangest thing about this was that when Shepherd said this recently, no one questioned him. No one even batted an eyelid. Everyone simply accepted what he said as fact. Does no one else find it odd to see big names in continental football - the likes of Hitzfeld, O?Neill and Eriksson ? linked with a job that was until relatively recently filled by unspectacular domestic managers such as Jim Smith? Newcastle were last the champions of England way back in 1927 and have not won the FA Cup for some fifty years and yet somehow they still retain ?big club? status. People tend to overlook that they have a worse recent record in winning trophies than Aston Villa, that bastion of mediocrity. Consider the reaction if Doug Ellis was to claim that the Villa job was one of the biggest in world football, as Shepherd did ? you?d barely be able to hear him over the laughter. And yet, surely, Villa has a better claim to being a big club than Newcastle. It?s worth remembering that they won the old First Division in the 1980-81 season and the European Cup the following season, beating the mighty Bayern Munchen in the final. Granted, you could say that the last real trophy they won was ten years ago now (and it was only the League Cup) but still that?s better than Newcastle?s recent trophy winning record.
So what is it that makes football ?experts? accept Freddy Shepherd?s self-deluding bluster? As we?ve seen, plenty of so-called smaller clubs have been more successful than Newcastle in the recent past, so it?s not that. What, then? Is it the fans? Undoubtedly Newcastle has a huge loyal fan base (who else but Newcastle fans would be willing to pack themselves in to St. James Park on a Monday morning to welcome yet another big name mercenary while dressed like walking bar codes?) yet loyal fans alone does not a big club make, as Manchester City show.
No, it?s not about success or popularity. Like everything in football, it comes down to money. Freddy Shepherd (and Sir John Hall before him) have pumped huge amounts of money into the club (as well as raking plenty in from the fans, ever willing to pay the hyper inflated ticket prices and buy the ?new? replica shirt every year), and as a result Newcastle can afford to punch above their weight in the transfer market, buying players such as Shearer, Owen and Parker, players that belie their true status as an average side on a par with the likes of Aston Villa or Manchester City. However, Newcastle?s relative riches may be as much of a curse as a blessing for the club, not unlike Tottenham Hotspur back in the 90s, the club have a tendency to acquire trophy players rather than actual trophies. Naturally, this is not enough for the fans. With the amount of money that has been spent, they expect their club to be challenging for European places at the very least, yet these days the club finds itself looking over its shoulder at a relegation battle it could still be dragged into.
Managing this club does not sound like ?one of the biggest jobs in world football? anymore. One of the hardest jobs, almost certainly. The expectations from the fans are almost impossible to fulfil, especially considering the squad, for all the smattering of big names here and there, is full of underachieving and average players. Unless they particularly relish an almost impossible challenge and thrive on suffocating pressure, I can?t see Hitzfeld or anyone of that ilk taking the job. After all, come the summer there will doubtless be some real big clubs with vacancies. Newcastle or Real Madrid, which would you prefer?
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February 26th, 2006 at 9:03 pm
Hahaha…
…Well, well, well. Where do i start??
How about beginning with your ******? Im a geordie through and through. Yes our prices are high for season tickets and obviously every geordie going to buy our shirts as we are proud. Trophys dont have to make you a big club.
We’ve won nowt (translated to ‘nothing’ for you southerners) for over 35 years but whats your point? im not saying we wouldnt like to win anything, course we would. But unfortunately we havent, we just need the rub of a green.
I would like you to write another article based on the fact that we have the most loyal fans in the country, the most passionate fans in the country, arguably the best ground in the country and to top it off our players arent that bad either.
Owen, Parker, Emre, Solano, Shearer, Given and Dyer would walk into 90% of the teams in the premiership.
Thats why us geordies are a big club to manage. Expectations are high, all we need is the right man in to do the job and we’ll have the last laugh.
Thanks for reading this.
February 26th, 2006 at 9:03 pm
shut up
February 26th, 2006 at 9:12 pm
Still smarting over the Owen transfer eh?
Who cares what you think? You obviously dont like our club so why the obsession?
Look at some facts! Winning trophies is not the only sign of a big club. For a start Boro won a trophy recently so does that make them ‘bigger’ than Newcastle? It may well make them more successful but not bigger.
St James’s Park could be expanded to seat 100,000 people and we would still fill it week in week out.
A clubs size is based on how man members it has…..and in that respect, we are the 2nd ‘biggest’ club in the country.
Yes we had some bad luck this season and last, but any team that has players such as Emre, Parker, Owen, Dyer and Shearer is a massive club, not just a big club.
So which club do you support?
February 26th, 2006 at 9:27 pm
I love reading bitter rants like this - especially when they are bullsh*t. The Newcastle manager’s job is one of the biggest around because Newcastle have one of the biggest followings around, some of the best supporters around, one of the best stadiums and sets of facilities around, some of the best players around, are one of the richest clubs around and, most imporantly, when you couple these things with the fact that Newcastle have not won a trophy in some time, it is surely one of the most appealing challenges to any manager around because there is so much potential. What exactly was the motive or purpose for this article?
February 26th, 2006 at 9:30 pm
Lan Jiao father roti planta.
February 26th, 2006 at 9:44 pm
mate, this article is a load of bull, you really dont have a clue. you make me laugh. IF your really think this is true, you dont have a cleu about football!
February 26th, 2006 at 9:45 pm
TOON!
February 26th, 2006 at 9:49 pm
Clearly the author is one of many people who is confused between the openly definable term ‘big club’ and and the much more stateable ’successful club’, although most people who read this will put this page down as just another person who is ranting at statements made by inderviduals in the media spotlight, and usually i can’t be bothered wasting my time with a reply but as this one is on a site that’s phase is ‘The Business and Politics of Football’ then i’d say that i would have expected a little; stratch that, a LOT more objectiveness.
No one has stated Newcastle as being successful although we have been performing better than most, (including spurs) thoughout the period of the premiership apart from 2 bad seasons, where we were handicapped by incompatant managers, this happens if you go through them at the rate we do. Yes we haven’t actually Won something in roughly 50 years as people love to point out, but the thing that i find so entertaining is that certain oppistion fans can’t stand our big club status and the only thing they mention is lack of trophy’s as their reason.
Well… i’d reason that there missing the point, in all other area’s we are near the top justifying the broad ststus of being a ‘big club’.
1, We are officially stated as the 11th richest club in the world, were tenth last year and i believe 8th the year before, this come’s from a report, but only takes into account revenue rather than expenditure.
2, We have the 2nd largest stadium in the premiership, will be third next year but that’s behind arsenal and man u.
3, we have the highest attendance ratio in the premiership.
4, we have one of the largest gloabl following in the premiership behind man u asenal and now chelsea, (again, reportedly more than spurs)
5, and finally the defining factor, our ability to attract players, yes through money but also precisly because we have the high expectation of wanting to finish in the top 4 or 6. This my friend is the reason WHY we aquired Owen, after all, wigan reported would offer ?20mill and pay his wage demands, more than us, but he turned them down, why? because we have a accepted status of being a big club that is prepared to spend to become a success. I thank u…
p.s. to save time i couldn’t be bothered to proof read this, so there will be errors as i’ve typed it in one go, and don’t be fooled by the email address it was set up near on a decade ago, and by no means reflect my age or demeanor. I look forward to your next report on newcastle…please next time be a little bit more objectional otherwise it comes across as another rant by a sad loser. bit like this
but i don’t publish it for all to see, no wonder the author’s name ain’t with the article.
2/10 poor at best, bonus point as you managed to spell newcastle right, lucky you.
February 26th, 2006 at 10:00 pm
Man, you really don’t get anything..
A club is only big if it wins trophys?
If you look at earnings and followers, NUFC is one of the biggest clubs in the world. It’s that easy.
…and the club is only a decent manager short of the success it deserves.
Stop wasting space on the internet with crap such as this…
February 26th, 2006 at 10:02 pm
Wow yet another person having a go at Newcastle writing about the same old boring rubbish. Please give me a break write something new not re wording what other “journalists” publish.
February 26th, 2006 at 10:04 pm
what are you? spud fan? stupid piece of shit? you just don’t know anything about football…
just think before posting any bullshit on your website… it’s ridiculous…
you just seem to be the perfect manager … (don’t make me laugh)…
BTW i’m not fan of any club, but what you’re writing is just nonsense… you must be 16 years old…
February 26th, 2006 at 10:16 pm
Re: Don’t make me laugh. Walking barcodes? Did you come up with that all on your own? The weakest joke I’ve heard in years.
February 26th, 2006 at 10:32 pm
what utter nonsence….you clearly have no grasp of world football or financial matters…..nufc is in the top 20 european clubs..this is FACT not fiction…nufc also has 52000 spectators coming through the gates week in week out….nufc is prepared to make the next manager the highest paid in the country…..regardless of whether they have won anything….they are a massive club with an undisputed massive following…..
February 26th, 2006 at 10:33 pm
What a desperately uninspired and unoriginal two penneth (have you ever considered a career as a tabloid journalist?).
As a Newcastle fan I can say for a fact that the fans think Shepherd is a pompous idiot, full of bluster and self-aggradisement. Naturally it is a fact that we have won nothing for over 30 years, this cannot be disputed.
We nearly fell into the malaise Notts Forrest currently find themselves in, slipping away unlikely to return. Keegan came and tansformed the club, bought brilliant players and coached the average ones into the most amazing team I have seen first hand apart from the current Barca side.
We are a ‘big club’ with all the side-effects that entails; the fans from no-where near the city, the huge transfer fees and the perennial under-achievement.
What people forget however is the fans; we are a one-club city and to an extent unmatched in any other city in England the whole play breathes football. We have large attendances and still command good attendances to cup games, unlike any clubs other that Man Utd and Liverpool. The turnover of the club is also high, sufficient to cover the mammoth debt.
Given that only 4 teams each year can potentially win silverware it is unlikely we will win any for some time yet; what remains is an amazing infrastructure, huge fan base. If that doesn’t constitute a big club then frankly it doesn’t matter because there’s something special about the club that a synthetic product like Chelsea for example could never match.
But yes, Shepherd is a bell-end. See you could have condensed all that regurgitated waffle you’ve written into those few words.
February 26th, 2006 at 10:43 pm
I have never hard such a load of rubbish in my life. What makes a club big is its I have never hard such a load of rubbish in my life. What makes a club big is its infrastructure, fan base and of course success. So it just goes to show how big a club Newcastle United are if they can attract the likes of Michael Owen without being in the Champions league and without recently winning any trophies. No one batted an eyelid when Freddy Sheperd claimed the Newcastle United are a big club, because they are!
Do you think Freddy Sheperd has just continuously plough’s his own money into the club? No. That money is generated through the club and the loyal supporters that pay to watch the team, week in week out, merchandise sales, sponsors and movie makers who are climbing over themselves to be associated with the club. Our ticket prices and shirts are more or less the same as every other club in the premiership, so why aren’t clubs like Everton able to attract players like Michael Owen, Scott Parker and Emre? They were in apparently in direct competition for the signatures of these players, bolstered with the prospect of Champions League football and the revenue generated from their top four finish. They joined Newcastle United because they are a bigger club than Everton, and that goes for the likes of Tottenham, Aston Villa, Bolton Blackburn and Manchester City too.
And how can you say Jim Smith recently managed Newcastle? It was almost 20 years ago! Whoever Newcastle United gets as their next manager, whether it is Martin O’Neill, Ottmar Hitzfeld or even Paul Jewell, they will be taking control of one the biggest clubs in Europe.
February 26th, 2006 at 10:57 pm
Thank you for those kind words of wisdom for our chairmen and club!
I hope that one day we can prove we are a big club. What have you got against the Geordies? It would be nice that once in a blue moon you could say something positive about us.
February 26th, 2006 at 11:15 pm
un-doubtless support through the hardest times, the singing of sheare, michael owen, emre, parker + luque, sounds like a big club to me. you fuckin wanker
February 26th, 2006 at 11:20 pm
I thought they had the 12th biggest income in world football last year, makes them one of the biggest clubs in the world in my bo0k.
February 26th, 2006 at 11:46 pm
this was a very poor article by any standards. Do you have to win trophies every year to be a major club, is that what tyou are saying. Obviously you must think that England national team are second bit players too then. Get a life and get a grip you sad mackem.
February 26th, 2006 at 11:55 pm
I’d call us a big club: just not a successful club. As for the biggest in football thing, I do see your point to some extent (more later) but I think a manager who brought us some success would certainly feel like he’d achieved one of the biggest things in the owrld. And after all, look who’s won something more recently than us… pretty much everybody. It must be our turn by now, surely?
Biggest football jobs (club only):
Newcastle United, Real Madrid, Partick Thistle, Barcelona, Rochdale, Manchester United. Surely no-one could argue with this list?
February 27th, 2006 at 12:02 am
actually, just a second comment about fans expectations. We don’t expect a bucketload of trophies, you know. What we expect, which for a club our size I don’t think is unreasonable, is attractive football, to be in the top half of the table and qualify for European football quite regularly. A trophy would be absolutely fu.. f… really really brilliant, but we don’t expect that.
I feel our expectations are unreasonably perceived by the media as demanding trophies. No, that’s what we want. That’s what everyone WANTS. But we’ll accept less.
Also, I would question Shepherd having pumped large amounts of money into the club. Check out http://www.nufc-finances.org.uk/. He’s backed managers, yes. But with the club and the fans’ money, not his own.
Bah… mutter mutter grumble. Also, describing us as looking like “walking bar codes” doesn’t exactly give the impression you’re totally neutral.
February 27th, 2006 at 12:30 am
We are bigger then Chelsea though you southern middle class Surrey boy, did you ever go to football as a kid, i think not.
February 27th, 2006 at 1:00 am
Abd who do we have to thank for these thoughts. Jemima Snith at the corner grocery store? Fred Bloggs at the gas station. Identify yourself and take your medicine.
February 27th, 2006 at 3:03 am
If it gets too bad we will revolt. We feel the need to support our club because of our (and here’s a big word for you) ‘culture’. I don’t talk much about small clubs very much, so what made you open your mouth? Love to know your team and why you ‘really’ support them. If you don’t know about the North East- keep it shut. I wouldn’t mind betting you’ve never done 15 ‘keepy uppies ‘ either. (Yeah- ‘15!’) .
February 27th, 2006 at 3:36 am
What a load of sh*te. Opinions are like ar**holes, everybody has one. you mate, haven’t got a clue
February 27th, 2006 at 7:39 am
Being a Newcastle supporter I would totally disagee. You are taking your interpretation of what Freddy Shepard meant by his comment and using that as the basis of you article. But you must consider the word big in the following context.
1. Agreed Newcastle have not one a trophy in recent years but that does make the job, to deliver one to the fans as a BIG job. They have challenged for the Premier league title on more than one occasion and in 95,96 &97 have to consider themselves unlucky not to win the title due to an injuries to shearer and ferdinand at the end of the season. Not to mention a couple of FA cup finals and reaching the second round of the champions league.
2. St James Park is one of the finest football stadiums in europe which as you stated gets packed full of 50,000 passionate fans week in week out no matter how the team is performing, and its a BIG job to please them with the fulid, attacking style of football that the fans demand (as they do in madrid, I might add).
3. We are in the top 12 richest clubs in the world and therefore we have BIG pulling power in the transfer market luring the likes of Alan Shearer (the greatest player to play in the premier league) when he could of went to Manchester United to win trophies. Or recently Michael Owen one of England greatest strikers and the reason they choose to join the clubs because it is a BIG club with BIG ambitions.
Now how could you compare us with Aston Villa. Have Aston Villa ever even played in the Champions League??? Have Tottenham ever finished in the top 5 of the Premier League??? Has Villa or Tottenham hosted memorable victories such as the 5-0 drubbing of Man U or the 3-0 Demolition of Barcelona, I hardly think so.
The Newcastle job is one of the BIGGEST in world football not because of how many trophies we have one, but because it will take a BIG manager to win one, with the tools available to him.
The league position this year is distorted due to our horror injury run which is never ending. All is need is a little luck in that department and you will see Newcastle back at the top challenging for BIG honours!!!!
Aaron Dall’Acqua
Sydney, Australia.
Reply if you wish.
February 27th, 2006 at 8:49 am
What a load of garbage.
Why so bitter?
February 27th, 2006 at 8:59 am
I agree 100% I would love to see them to do well but what you say is very true .
I think Freddie is living in a goal fish bowl
February 27th, 2006 at 9:28 am
Cockney wanker!!
February 27th, 2006 at 9:57 am
newcastle united are the 2nd biggest club in this country as we are the 2nd most supported club in this country FACT!
Winning trophies doesnt have anything to do with the size of the club, nottingham forrest won many trophies under cloughie but were never considered a big club.
Newcastle United had no european football last season and and still had the 12th biggest turnover in the WORLD, regularly that turnover was up to 6-8 when they were in the champions league.
Anyone who can point to any team in the world who can better the 12 place whilst not in european competition go ahead and try.
Ah but then again we were talking about the premiership were we not dont make me laugh without european foot ball there is only man united who would generate more than newcastle united.
February 27th, 2006 at 10:12 am
1/10 Utter rubbish. Please at least check your facts before attempting to write an article.
February 27th, 2006 at 10:31 am
I think you make some fair points here, and I think you’ve come in for some harsh criticism from people who’ve only read the deliberately provocative headline.
Newcastle may be a big club in terms of support and finance, but the only way the Newcastle job is ?one of the biggest in world football? is in terms of how much work needs doing.
February 27th, 2006 at 11:31 am
Excuse me, but which prospective employer do you know who does not play up the size and or importance of his company when trying to attract new employees?
All supporters exagerate the importance and size of their club,
it goes with the territory even if the club that you support is in one of the lower leagues.
Many of your radio and television colleagues all over the country, particulary those who ply their trade on one of the many local radio stations claim that their club “belongs” in the premiership, or the championship, or wherever. The truth is that “right to belong” has to be earned. And since rejoining the elite, Newcastle have earned the right to describe themselves as a big club, more often that not finishing in the top six and certainly through turn over where they are currently the twelfth largest in the world.
But not withstanding that, there are few managers in the game who understand and can cope with the expectation and pressure of the Newcastle fans. It will take a big man to cope. The last man to consistently cope was Joe Harvey. Even Kevin Keegan could not. My worry is that the so called “big names” linked with the job, and who have stated that they are not interested are frightened of failing and that we may end up with another nonenity.
And by the way, how many coaches have Real Madrid had this year?
February 27th, 2006 at 1:04 pm
So ‘big’ = winning trophies does it? Tottenham haven’t won very many trophies recently yet they are still a big club like us with big support and big expectations. Newcastle need a big manager because whether you like it or not they have a reputation in European terms, until recently playing good football and getting noticed. 2 Champions League Campaigns, cup runs every season, being painfully close to Championships and UEFA Cups - is this the mark of a small club? Sure, we underachieve, but underachieve compared to what? To what we Newcastle fans expect, compared to what we have spent, compared to Freddie Shepherd’s expectations? I don’t like the man, not at all in fact, but at least he is ambitious, the appointment of Souness excepted.
I find it pathetic how certain London-based hacks can only get readership by writing something as deliberately provocative and devoid of all fact as this article. My paranoia that ‘them soft southern b**tards hate uz man!’ seems to have some foundation in reality. I can’t think why.
February 27th, 2006 at 1:40 pm
Are PSV a bigger club than us? no.
Are Porto a bigger club than us? of course not.
You are a fool who needs to consult a dictionary and take an emotional inventory whilst you’re at it.
You will find that ‘Big’ and ‘Successful’ are not synonyms.
If hypothetically Real Madrid went decades without winning something then would they cease to become a ‘big club’? of course not but according to your defintion then they would.
Are Internazionale, a side that have not won Serie A for 17 years or the European cup for decades not a big club? of course not but again according to what you deem a big club then they are not.
As for ‘walking barcodes’ what is your fvoured method of locomotion?
Teleportation perhaps?
Next time ask someone with a higher IQ to write your articles becasue they can probably do erudite because you clearly can’t you sad, bitter and anonymous coward.
February 27th, 2006 at 1:52 pm
Let me just butt in at this point and say that I won’t have any more personal attacks on the writer in this thread. I can see why David’s article (not anonymous, his name is at the top of the article BTW) has gotten some backs up in Newcastle but petty, childish name calling does no-one any favours.
If you have an argument to rally against his views on Newcastle as a big club then outline them, if anyone wants a full article to do it I’ll happily post it for them but I won’t have any more personal insults spouted.
February 27th, 2006 at 2:13 pm
SOTG Admin
Did you really expect any other reaction to the lies and half truths and provocation in the original article. great way to get more page hits on your web site slag off the Geordies. I for one wont bother to read the biased crap anymore. First and last time I visit your site.
February 27th, 2006 at 2:26 pm
“lies and half truths and provocation”
1) Newcastle haven’t won anything of note for a long time - TRUE.
2) Large fanbase alone does not make a big club - DEBATABLE BUT ESSENTIALLY TRUE AS WELL.
3) Newcastle are considered a big club these days because they have bought their way into the Premiership elite - AGAIN, CONTROVERSIAL BUT PRETTY MUCH UNDENIABLE.
While it may hurt Newcastle fans to hear these things, I published David’s article because it covered some serious issues and opens a wider debate to what does constitute a big club these days. Truthfully he could have substituted the club involved for Aston Villa, Manchester City, Tottenham or Chelsea and had exactly the same response from their fans.
As for getting easy hits from Geordies, I’m glad a good portion on here and on forums such as www.newcastle-online.com which have linked this article have had some sense and given some reasoned responses and even agreed with some of what has been said. In the real world we call it discussion.
February 27th, 2006 at 2:32 pm
The personal attacks are a bit much, don’t you think? If you don’t agree with what I say feel free to say so, but is there any need to call me a wanker, among other things? Surely I am entitled to my opinion as much as you’re all entitled to yours…if you disagree then surely you could write an actual rebuttal and make a few decent points (I know some of you have, fair play to all of you who had something constructive to say) rather than resorting to petty name calling.
Oh, and by the way, I’m neither a mackem nor a cockney, just to clear that up.
February 27th, 2006 at 2:39 pm
Not that I don’t agree totally, Admin, it’s just that by implicitly deriding Geordies (’ who else but Newcastle fans would be willing …to welcome the new overpaid mercenary, dressed like walking barcodes’ - a term he should know we find offensive because of the context its used in elsewhere) your writer will struggle to make any friends. Sure, he could have chosen another club and had the same response, but this article smacks of petty jealousy. Yes, it is shocking that the club hasn’t won anything for 37 years, but calling Michael Owen and Scott Parker ‘mercenary’- is THAT the truth? Parker is not a mercenary, if you’ve watched any of our recent matches that much will become apparent - to label him in the category of Kluivert (who was) and Luque (who might well be) does the boy a great injustice.
February 27th, 2006 at 2:57 pm
Mercenary, “Motivated solely by a desire for monetary or material gain” - Scott Parker who was supposedly a boyhood Spurs fan has turned the club down twice in a couple of years to first sit on Chelsea’s bench for more money and then take more money at Newcastle this season. After the season Spurs have had can you honestly say that to a London born Spurs fan, it was a purely footballing decision to play under Souness and with Lee Bowyer that took Parker north?
Owen was left with no real option other than taking the big money Newcastle offered as they offered twice the transfer fee Liverpool did to blow the opposition out of the water and keep Madrid from dealing with anyone else. Whether this makes Owen a mercenary I don’t know but it’s certainly questionable use of club resources from Freddy and cohorts and belies the pulling power the club claims to have. The pulling power of pounds Sterling works for all clubs - just look at Middlesbrough.
February 27th, 2006 at 4:37 pm
While I agree that the name calling and personal attacks against the writer are petty and unnecessary, I can understand why many Geordies feel strongly enough to stoop this low.
As a reader of quite a few football forums I constantly come across posters (Usually Sunderland, Liverpool or Spurs supporters) who seem to have taken it to heart that Newcastle have aquired this ‘label’ as a ‘big club’. They seem to take it personally and feel it necessary to post rants, like the one from David above, usually either to wind us up or simply to let off their own bitter frustrations.
I could argue ’til I’m blue in the face about why I think we are a big club, about how I feel that being a big club is about more than just winning trophies, but that would be pointless as that is my opinion and yours is obviously different.
And in the end thats what it comes down to, opinions.
If you were unbiased I probably would try and explain why I feel this way in the hope that I might be able to sway your opinion but you’re obviously not unbiased otherwise you wouldn’t really care enough about whether we are a big club or not to write this article.
However, I will say that while in general most of us ‘barcodes’ (and no that name really doesn’t offend 99% of us and was a poor attempt at a wind up) do think we are a big club, we aren’t the ones shouting about it. It’s usually people like you spouting inflammatry drivel like this that brings the subject up.
Funnily enough the other place you tend to hear the ‘big club’ label used is when proffesional players, managers and commentators are talking about Newcastle. We are often described in interviews in Newspapers and on programmes such as MOTD as a massive club. But then of course you know better than all of these.
You scoffed at Freddie Shepherds comment about it being “one of the biggest jobs in football”. I think (and again this is my opinion) that Freddie was not only thinking about the size of the club when he said this but also the pressure that comes with the job. I don’t think anyone can disagree that the expectations of the fans, as well as the avid interest in anything connected to Newcastle United up here puts a lot of pressure on the manager and the players, hence JJ leaving us to go to Spurs because it was like living in a “Goldfish Bowl” playing for us. This is what makes it a big job, and the fact that we haven’t won anything in such a long time adds more pressure and therefore makes it and even bigger job.
My final question to you is, why do you care whether we are classed as a big club or not?
February 27th, 2006 at 5:00 pm
This is a general football website. People write articles for it in order to express their views on the game and to open up discussion with fans of other clubs and from other countries about the issues that interest them.
To say you won’t discuss an article (despite giving a lengthy comment explaining why you won’t) because a fan of another club is giving a biased view is pretty small minded. How many football fans do you know that aren’t biased when it comes to their views on the game? If you point one out to me I’d tell you that they obviously don’t care enough about the game if they are prepared to always sit on the fence and not foster an opinion one way or the other. As such, some of the Geordies who have been up in arms today have said they didn’t like the biased tone of the article while espousing a completely biased (polar opposite) view of the other side.
When these two different views come together we get a fuller discussion folks and at the end of the day (to coin a phrase) isn’t that what we spend all day on football websites trying to get involved in? I’m still waiting on a Newcastle fan getting in touch with me to offer an article on the other side of the story so if anyone feels up to it…http://stateofthegame.co.uk/contact-state-of-the-game/
February 27th, 2006 at 5:11 pm
You make some fair points, Maglight. But why do I care whether Newcastle are a big club or not? Because I’m interested in the game of football and I like sharing my opinions (and that’s all they are) with others. I thought my article would be an interesting read and was hoping to stimulate some debate on a (relatively) topical subject, and I think the fact that the article has had so many responses means that I have done so…secondly, it’s my job on this site to write articles on football, but what would be the point if I did not express my opinions, contraversial or not? Of course my views will be biased one way or another, everyones are
February 27th, 2006 at 5:14 pm
I didn’t say I wouldn’t discuss the article, I said I wouldn’t argue about why I thought we were a big club as in the end it comes down to opinions.
I agree that all football fans, myself included, are biased towards their own club. They wouldn’t be fans otherwise.
The main point of my article is why is David, and any other fans that post the same sort of thing, that bothered about us being labeled a big club? I do honestly think we are a big club but don’t care enough about whether other people think that to go posting on forums, particulary other teams forums such as on the 606 Newcastle message board. And yes I know I have just contradicted myself as I have just posted a lengthy post on this exact topic, however being the ‘biased’ fan that I am, I sometimes rise to the bait. lol
Anyway, Good Luck to David trying to prove one way or another whether we are a big team or not.
February 27th, 2006 at 5:16 pm
David,
Why is it a fallacy that Michael Owen will score 20 goals a season because that is just what he has done throughout his career? Have you considered that Shepard’s statement the one that no one even batted an eyelid over was largely accepted as correct by football people in general? Have you considered that it might have something to do with your own personality that no one else but you thinks it odd that big name managers might be linked with the job? Just how are Newcastle fans unique in that their club spends big money on players? Surely that is the modern game and to say that any club in particular watches overpaid mercenaries is to be in denial of the reality. In the premiership every club spends what it can afford with some spending more and others less. What is this disrespectful insult about barcodes? The Newcastle strip is one of the most famous anywhere and unlike many others is instantly recognised as representing the club. Where you reveal your biggest weakness is in your staement that Shephard and Hall have pumped huge amounts of money into the club because that is not true. If you botherd to do a little research you would find out that both men and all the players earn a wage and share dividends which are all paid for by the large fan base. They do not pay over inflated ticket prices, if you bother to compare them to any other premiership outfit and you are missing the whole point that the support base IS what makes Newcastle a big club. Also the biggest jobs are also the hardest jobs so wake up and smell the coffee. You need to drop the bitterness David because your insulting headline and general tone marks you out as a sad and cynical person. I suspect that you may be a Man City fan? and whether that is right or not it is undoubtly some other similar club who resent the Toon’s status. If you supported a winning club then I suspect you would probably not care a bit about how much other people might rate Newcastle.
February 27th, 2006 at 5:47 pm
Tell you what, I read this thinking “OH MY GOD, A MACKEM OR SMOKED BEAN” has made this pathetic, unfactual, bitter, spitefull, and blatant issue exposing peice of what only the author can refer to as a post !
All I want to say, is like almost ALL of the people who have responded to this utter trash, I felt utterly disgruntled and very directly annoyed, yet when I saw the replies, it warmed my heart and relaxed my bursting frown, to see so many of you already shooting this topic down !
So you see, mr author, I hope your “perspective” on our football club now will change, compensating for that egg surrounding your sockets !
February 27th, 2006 at 8:52 pm
I took this piecee to be about the “Big Club” label in general, but having read through the responses I may have missed some of the Toon specifics!
Anyway, when I was growing up in the 1980s there was the “Big Five” of Liverpool, Man. United, Everton, Tottenham and Arsenal (in that order), with the likes of Villa perhaps struggling to make the list despite a League title and European Cup, because they struggled (and were relegated) through the late ’80s.
I would work on the mathematical formula of:
(Fan Base) x (Recent Success) x (Historical Success) = Big Club
And having now spent an hour working this out on the basis of clubs currently in the Premiership and using the following parameters:
Fan Base - 1 point per thousands of the average attendance (in 2004/05)
Recent Success (ten years) - 5 pts for a Champions League/Cup, 4 pts for League title, 3 pts for FA Cup/UEFA Cup/Cup Winners’ Cup, 2 pts for Champions League appearance (minus those for finishing as League/European Champions), 1 pt for League Cup, 0.1 pt for year in top flight.
Historical Success (prior to 1995/96) - As above only halved
So the “New Big Five” according to the Jonny quotient is:
1. Man. Utd 90,099
2. Arsenal 34,340
3. Liverpool 32,941
4. Chelsea 6,699
5. Newcastle 6,623
Followed by Man City, Aston Villa and Spurs.
To be honest it is impossible to measure the “Big-ness” of a club in numbers (which also opens the possibility of my own biases), but if nothing else this will shut-up the moaning Barcodes, and annoy Spurs fans no-end!
February 27th, 2006 at 9:27 pm
Admin,
“Newcastle are considered a big club these days because they have bought their way into the Premiership elite - AGAIN, CONTROVERSIAL BUT PRETTY MUCH UNDENIABLE”.
I have to say too that this comment only goes to show what a second rate argument you are defending. Don’t defend David or open up your web space to people who have an agenda which interfers with the need for objectivity. If you the so called admin are an example of the standard then I feel sorry for all involved. Just about everyteam who is succesfull in the premiership has bought their way into it as you put it; to argue anything diffrent is pathetic. It’s nice that you consider them to be in the elite but spending money on players is neither controversial or in need of denying.
February 27th, 2006 at 10:15 pm
“Just about every team who is succesfull in the premiership has bought their way into it” - tell that to Bolton Wanderers or Wigan Athletic this season. Bolton over the last few years have got by on cheap imports and free transfers and have consistently punched above their weight. Newcastle have undeniably spent big and won nothing.
David has no hidden agenda I can assure you and neither do I. If he had written a piece praising the Toon fans and club for their fantastic support and the forward thinking policies of their management then there wouldn’t have been a word about objectivity. Because he felt that the big club tag was undeserving for Newcastle you feel otherwise.
Spending money on players is part and parcel of the game these days at the highest level; spending overinflated sums on transfer fees and wages to persuade big name mercenary players to join you isn’t necessarily the mark of a big club.
The formula JD used above to calculate bigness of a club is also flawed when you take into account the geographic nature of football support. Newcastle can get a higher average gate becuase they are the only Premiership club in their own city. London clubs are at the biggest disadvantage due to the sheer number of other local clubs.
Eventually all fans should realise that being a big club is all down to perception and there is no objective basis to judge it on and as such my web space is open to anyone who fancies arguing their own point.
February 28th, 2006 at 12:18 am
David, I disagreed with some of what you said. I however back you and SOTG admin in saying personal attacks are wrong and inappropriate. Where people disagree they have the right to say so - any many including me have. One thing is certainly clear - you get Newcastle fans on the net and they can be passionate about defending their team.
HOWEVER… It is not neccessary and diminishes the argument to make personal attacks. While I disagree with what you said, I would defend your right to say it.
I am sorry so many Newcastle fans felt the need to get personal, when I feel the better way would have been to demonstrate a clear argument against your article, or maybe approach it with a bit of humour.
I disagree, you disagree. That’s football, mate
Heh.. I wouldn’t expect to find many Sunderland fans agreeing with me, for example!
February 28th, 2006 at 9:23 am
This is one of the most uneducated, incorrect rants about NUFC i have seen in a while. You are confused between “big” and “successful”. The reasons you say we are not a big club are the exact same reasons why we are indeed a big club. Which other team could have so many years of under achievement, yet still boast 52,000 through the doors every match day? I say none. Anywhere in the world. We are a credit to our club who have let us down so often, yet it is our support which makes us a massive concern worldwide. We are one of the top 15 clubs in the rich list and are rarely outperformed in the transfer market - Chelsea aside. This is something you have failed to appreciate i think. We WILL name a huge name as our next manager and we WILL continue to get 52,000 every week. Also, when we win a trophy - and we will at some stage - it will be a sight to behold and will overshadow anything seen in this country for a very long time. Other than this season, we have played on the European stage successfully and with dignity, on a regular basis achieving some great results in the Champions league on the way. Barcelona and Inter Milan remain fresh in my mind to this day. Can teams like Spurs and Villa boast this in recent times? No. Can Spurs say they have ever achieved this while the Premiership has been running? No. Yet i fear you would class them as a “big” club. You are either mislead, misinformed or both. Or a wind up merchant with little else better to do than read papers with a significant southern bias and reproduce their waffle on this site. You might be best served by going away, doing some research into the club, checking some figures and making a calculated conclusion. Turnover. That’s what ultimately makes a big club. Money is the be all and end all in today’s football climate. That makes Newcastle a massive force to be reckoned with.
February 28th, 2006 at 10:01 am
David, I couldn’t have put it better myself. How the self styled most loyal, wacky and mad fans have got this idea into their heads is beyond me. They should be filling their ground with the catchment area they have - Newcastle + Gateshead is bigger than Greater Manchester which sustains two Premiership Clubs with 3 others in close proximity. Yet in the 1980s attendances often dropped to the 9,000 mark. Loyal fans? Don’t make me laugh - out of ALL clubs it’s Newcastle who have benefitted (if that’s the correct word to use) from the fans SKY has brought to the game - the knobheads in Jester Hats, if you will.
Newcastle have not won a trophy since 1955, unlike West Brom, Oxford United, Middlesbrough, Swindon Town, Norwich City, Wimbledon, Burnley, Bolton, Wolves, Derby County, Queen’s Park Rangers, Leicester City, Stoke City, Luton Town, Sheffield Wednesday and numerous others.
The blindness of these Newcastle fans is a joy to behold. Any manager to take that poisoned chalice must be barking mad, it’s professional suicide, especially as everyone knows that Shearer is the true boss of the club. If a name is going to come in it must be on the provision Shearer goes. You can only have one decision maker at the club, the manager can’t be worried about losing his job if he drops Shearer.
Alternatively, give Shearer the job, let him take them down and watch the knobheads in jester hats melt away as they return to their true level.
February 28th, 2006 at 10:02 am
If a club can be described as ‘big’ on their reputation in the football world, then Newcastle are huge. Here is an example: Where I work, we have employed several Spaniards. Highly qualified people who are in demand. One is from Madrid, and is a Real supporter. Another is from Barcelona, and is a Barca supporter. Both have said that one of the reasons they chose to live in Newcastle was the football. In Spain, Newcastle are viewed as a big club. When European draws are made, they are a team that Spanish clubs want to avoid.
February 28th, 2006 at 10:55 am
Alan,
So Chelsea, Man utd, Liverpool , Arsenal et al have not bought their way into the elite? Sorry but your argument is thinner than a rizla paper and it seems obvious you are in some state of denial. Yes the likes of Bolton and this season Wigan have done quite well but that is mainly down to having a very good manager. Have a look in the papers and you can see the wolves gathering around both clubs so don’t kid yourself they will remain when the proper big clubs come a calling! If David had written an article praising the Toon fans for their fantastic support then he would rightly be seen as showing objectivity but if he had praised the management’s forward looking policies then myself and most Newcastle fans would have sent the guys in the white coats to see him! Why don’t you face up to it the reason this pathetic article recieved the response it did was because the language starting with the headline was intended to be insulting. The whole issue of free speech is underpinned by the need for objectivity and responsibility; a blind person can see that was missing. You say that spending large ammounts of money on overinflated transfers and wages isn’t a mark of a big club? Well why don’t you tell us which big ‘ by David’s criteria’ club has not done exactly that? You also go on to say that for geographical reasons we can discount the support base of Newcastle! That is clutching at straws and again demonstrates to all how facile your argument is. Are ManUtd a Big club when the majority of their support comes from outside of Manchester are Chelsea when they are bought and paid for by an unpatriotic Russian? Well I’m sorry to say they are irrespective of what spin anybody wants to place on them. You say your web space is open to all who want to argue their point does that include the admin because I haven’t heard an identifiable argument just an insulting under researched article followed by a second rate defense from the admin.
February 28th, 2006 at 11:26 am
facts for HARRY H
http://stateofthegame.co.uk/2006/02/16/manchester-united-fall-behind-real-madrid-in-richest-clubs-list/
the facts are already on this site if you would care to follow the page link, they are also widely published on many financial websites
February 28th, 2006 at 12:07 pm
MM,
Liverpool, Manchester United and Arsenal have one thing in common that separates them from Newcastle - they win trophies on a consistent basis and have done for many decades. They don’t attract big name players “solely” by the wedge they offer them in a way ‘I believe’ Newcastle do. That’s my opinion.
As for objectivity, I’ve already covered this topic above. I want some football opinion, you have been given your chance to respond to even the discussion up but too many times your fellow fans have stooped to gutter talk and personal insults. My point about Newcastle having a captive large catchment area to themselves is a pertinent one and I think the comment above about attendances falling to around the 9000 mark in the 1980s at SJP should temper your ‘big club based on attendances’ claims.
Why do you find it so hard to stomach that fans of other clubs without the black and white tinted glasses on don’t see you as a big club? I’ve got used to people saying it about Spurs but these days I don’t care, we know we’re one of the biggest clubs in England, I don’t need anyone else to feed our ego and backslap us. We consistently sell out White Hart Lane every home game, we take thousands on the road when we travel and you’d be looking hard to find crowds at the 9000 mark at WHL even wen we were relegated in the late 70s.
Would it make you feel better if I said I think you’re a bigger club than Sunderland?
February 28th, 2006 at 12:39 pm
Best fans in the world!!!!! Classic.
Where were you when you were sh1t?
February 28th, 2006 at 12:44 pm
About time someone exploded this myth.
I wonder if Owen (the bloke who has continually repeated that he didn’t want to go to Newcastle) loves his ‘big club’ or just the 120clicks a week they are paying him ?
I wonder where the crowds have come from. Bit different to the 10 and 12k gates they were getting in the 80’s
Get over yourself Barcodes.
February 28th, 2006 at 12:48 pm
I hate this nonsense about Newcastle fans being the best in the world - If i didnt have a job I’d go down to my team’s stadium everytime they signed somene as well - it doenst mean that the geordies are anything special.
February 28th, 2006 at 12:54 pm
insecure bunch, your worthless and always will be.
February 28th, 2006 at 12:57 pm
Manchester Mike,
Please get your facts right before posting.
These figures are based on the 2001 census, Im sure there hasn’t been too much change in 5 years:
Greater Manchester Population = 2,482,328
Newcastle Population = 259,536
Gateshead Population = 191,687
Newcastle + Gateshead = 450,687
So Newcastle and Gateshead combined is still only 1/5 of the population of Greater Manchester! Even if you look at the whole of Tyne and Wear the population is still only 1,075,938 and that includes the Mackems!
Also our lowest EVER average attendance is 17,000, so I’m not sure how our attendance “often” dropped to 9000!
February 28th, 2006 at 1:02 pm
Maglight - Do you understand the word AVERAGE ? That’s how you got 9k attendances when your AVERAGE was 17k.
It’s in the dictionary.
February 28th, 2006 at 1:03 pm
Newcastle have been a big club over the last 10 years - there’s no denying that. They weren’t a big club before that (unless attendances of under 20,000 and yo-yoing between the top two divisions qualify for that title) but Sir John Hall managed to get them where they are today. Whether Mr Shepherd will piss it all up against a wall remains to be seen, of course. But all of the hype surrounding the club is more down to the media’s (and sky in particular) inability to remember anything that happened pre 1992. I for one find the circus most entertaining, and look forward to more exciting developments over the coming months.
February 28th, 2006 at 1:08 pm
One Geordie says “Owen, Parker, Emre, Solano, Shearer, Given and Dyer would walk into 90% of the teams in the premiership”.
Its a real pity that most of the time none of them can walk, isn’t it?
February 28th, 2006 at 1:09 pm
I know it can be hard for other fans to try and understand why Newcastle is classed so highly as a club throughout Europe. As stated we have all the revenue and backing at hand to make a difference in any league! With a stadium to suit.
Is that not a big club?
We are a big club because we the fans make it a big club! And the fan base at Newcastle is 99.99 % of Geordie inheritance.
Someone as bitter as yourself to write something as belittling to your own self worth, a statement that can only be cause by the unity of one club “Newcastle unit” knowing fine well you will not destroy the spirit, but only rub more salt in to your own wounds. I feel for you!
I don?t want to waste or drag the fans of Newcastle in any further discussion about this, but I would like you to be a big enough man to put forward your name and see how big of club we actually are?
I forgive you!
****. - EDITED BY ADMIN - (I’ve already made it clear I won’t have any personal insults) - ****
Signed
Roy Stoves
February 28th, 2006 at 1:15 pm
“The lowest League attendance was for the last match of the 1978/79 season when only 7,134 made the pilgramage for the Division 2 match with Wrexham”
February 28th, 2006 at 1:16 pm
newcastle fans…only wear the colours to be noticed,otherwise they would fade into mediocrity just like their past.Big clubs have big history,big following not just now but also when the chips are down.The previous mentions of 10k crowds & all that say it all…great fans…nah plenty better.
February 28th, 2006 at 1:18 pm
So it looks like I got it right when I guessed that your invective towards Newcastle came from jealousy. So the mighty Spurs are a big club, personally I Would not argue with that. I live in North London and know quite a few Spurs fans and as a result I have observed close up the poison that they feel resulting from the premiership years. Yes in that time Arsenal have went from being above the Spurs to completly leaving them behind and I know it hurts. On top of that they have sufferd a famine of biblical proportions in the league. The level of hatered towards Sol Cambell probably sums up better than anything I can say about the way things are. The past thirteen years or so have been dissapointing to say the least but who knows with a bit of luck, the right manager and a continuation of the ‘Huge’ amounts of money invested, Spurs might emulate the likes of Everton this year; Maybe, this year anyway. What I would say though is it kind of weakens even further your paper thin arguments when Spurs recent revival has come through the influx of overpaid mercenaries! That is those that your club can afford, as players such as Parker or any other decent player for that matter knows that Spurs chances of challenging for the title are a lot less likely than at Newcastle in the long term. As this is my last vist to your site may I just say that if you are really a Spurs based London website with an agenda then why don’t you say so instead of masquerading under the absurd title of The Business and Politics of Football! That unbelieveably pretentious name has given me a real laugh and will be the biggest memory I take from the site.
Regards Michael Moore
February 28th, 2006 at 1:20 pm
Men had not landed on the moon the last time Newcarsul won anyfink and the last time they won a trophy that is still in existence, rationing was widespread and Elvis unheard of
nuffink but a load of fick norvern mankeys who live in a small world where they are just happier being slightly more famous than Sunderland
February 28th, 2006 at 1:21 pm
Newcastle are an innofensive bunch until you consider this ‘best fans in the world’ nonsense.
They’re fans, some of them care, some of them less so. Same as every other club in the world. Man City & even Leeds fans would probably find the ‘Best Fans’ title, awarded to them by Sky Sports in a cermony i must have missed, a little incredulous considering your attendances when things were not going quite as well.
I’ve just re-read the original artical and struggle to find anything in it that isn’t true. The ‘Big Club’ tag is one that i care not for, but when trying to prove you are one, don’t bring the ‘best fans in the world’ thing into it. A decent club with a decent history, but not a great deal more than the thinking man’s Sheffield Wednesday.
February 28th, 2006 at 1:26 pm
I am sick of hearing about the barcodes and there fans.
Well done. i wish i could not have a job and let my wife and kids live on the poverty line so i could watch my team every week, but most people live in the real world where looking after your family is the most important thing.
Should you be proud that you would rather spend your last tenner every week on the likes of Dyer and Owen, players who consistantly make you and your precious team look like mugs by taking there money home and laughing at you and your ‘we are a big club’ statements??
February 28th, 2006 at 1:29 pm
Didn’t you get less than 8000 for a league game against Norwich in the 77/78 season?
Could be wrong so i’d appreciate one of your knowledgeable fans to put me right on this…………….
Cheers
February 28th, 2006 at 1:31 pm
what makes a big club is how you are perceived by your peers as the word ‘big’ club is ambiguous and open to many interpretations.
newcastle fans think newcastle is a big club
newcastle fans think wor jackie and wor alan are the greatest ever strikers (take a look a J. Greaves record against mary poppins)
you have the ’star’ striker that is there just to get back into the England squad and was overheard before going on the pitch to meet the toon saying he didnt want to be there.
you are not a big club in the eyes of the rest of the prem. The teams that have big gates too but also have a fine a distinguished history of success
newcastle fans have become their own tribute band
February 28th, 2006 at 1:37 pm
Still, I always quite liked ‘Spender’.
February 28th, 2006 at 1:49 pm
Newcastle Utd FC All Time Records
Attendance 68,386: vs Chelsea 03/09/1930 Division 1
Best league win 13 - 0: vs Newport County 05/10/1946 Division 2
Best cup win 9 - 0: vs Southport 01/02/1932 FA Cup R4
Most capped player Alf McMichael: 40 Northern Ireland
League appearances Jimmy Lawrence: 432 1904/22
League goals Jackie Milburn: 178 1946/57
Goals in a season Hughie Gallacher: 36 1926/27 Division 1
Transfer fee paid ?15,000,000: Alan Shearer Blackburn Rovers July 1996
Newcastle Utd FC Honours
League Titles Division One: 1904 - 05, 1906 -07, 1908 - 09, 1926 -27, 1992 - 93 (new format), Division Two: 1964 - 65
FA Cup Winners in 1910, 1924, 1932, 1951, 1952, 1955
Europe Fairs/UEFA Cup 1968 - 69; Anglo - Italian Cup 1972 - 73
League Cup Runners-up 1975 - 76
Other Texaco Cup winners 1973 - 74, 1974 - 75
Thats pretty good history in my book.
P.s I quit like ‘Only fools & horses’ for the fact it perceives Londoners as idiots
P.s.s for the person winging on about family values, not earning enough to support his local team. I also feel for you!
I’ll try and have a whip-round and get you a few quid so you can also share the experience 99 % of men enjoy.
February 28th, 2006 at 2:06 pm
I hate rising to the bait but here goes.
Just as I stated in my first post above that the name calling by Newcastle fans was petty and unnecessary I also think that other fans calling us names is equally as bad. And the insinuation that all Newcastle fans are on the dole and don’t look after their kids says more about the poster of those comments than us.
This big club argument is all down to opinion. We could argue all day long about why we think one club is big and another is not but as everyone has different opinions about what makes a club big and we will never come to an agreement.
Personally I think there is a difference between being a big club and being a successfull one, and you don’t need to be successfull to be classed as big. Others would disagree with that, but thats up to them and I don’t really care.
The only thing that does get to me is the fact that other teams fans seem to get so worked up about this ‘big club’ label being attributed to Newcastle that they even let it soil their opinion of the Newcastle fans, which is just ridiculous. Especially since it is the media a lot more than the fans that have labelled us with this.
It is also programmes such as MOTD and other footballers and managers that consistently call us a big club in interviews etc (Which blows Cracker’s point about not being big in the eyes of the rest of the prem out the water).
In the same vein, this ‘most loyal fans in the world’ tag is also brought up constantly the media and professional players etc. Personally I would like to think that we do have a good, loyal following, but how could I possibly say its the best in the world? Every team has good and bad supporters, who’s to say which are better? Its all opinion.
For me personally, I don’t give a rats arse whether we are a big, small or medium sized club, or whether our fans are the “best in the world” because I support Newcastle through thick and thin and always will, regardless of stupid labels. I also don’t care about whether any other team is labeled a big club, and I wouldn’t waste my time trying to argue against it, that would just make me look jealous, bitter and threatened!
February 28th, 2006 at 2:06 pm
I imagine some fans might laugh at the above statistics, primarily because they seem to have a foot firmly planted in the early part of the last century, making it difficult to ascertain what side of the argument is being proved. To those deluded fans i say this.
Newcastle have won a LOT of honours since the Rock N Roll years. A quick glance above reveals that they retained the Texaco Cup in the mid 70’s. Of course, it’s easy to forget about that this weekend, as we are all celebrating the 30th anniversary of our defeat in the League Cup FInal.
I’ve had enough of you twonks telling me that Newcastle is as baron of trphies as it is of culture, especially so close to Cheryl Tweedy Day.
February 28th, 2006 at 2:10 pm
Hiya folks
I am a Spurs fan. I have always had a soft spot for newcastle as great players like David Ginola and Les Ferdinand played for them.
I have been rather amused reading this, the majority of replies seem to disagree that Newcastle FC is a small club. This is ludicrous, LUDICROUS I say!
My friend is a Southend fan, he reckons they have the most loyal, die hard set of fans around…..does this mean they are a big club???? No it does not.
Coventry City now have a very nice stadium with a large capacity for a Championship team….does this mean they are a big team?…No it does not.
Newcastle have vocal fans whom choose to go topless when it is very cold….does this mean they are a big club?…..No it does not. What it does demonstrate is that the fans are loyal and supportive.
Newcastle need to win some silverware and grace the finest stadiums in the world to be regarded as a big club.
Ameobi is a cracking player full of pace and finesse
February 28th, 2006 at 2:16 pm
How many league football teams are there in the Greater Manchester area though?
February 28th, 2006 at 2:18 pm
is one of the reasons why Spanish clubs want to avoid Newcastle in European draws, the same reason they want to avoid Moscow or Siberia ? A weather issue ?
February 28th, 2006 at 2:23 pm
MikeyB : “Newcastle need to win some silverware and grace the finest stadiums in the world to be regarded as a big club”
If it is your opinion that to be a big club that you have to win silverware (I assume you mean in the recent past as the post above proves we have won silverware, allbeit some time ago) then I accept that in you opinion we are not a big club. Although, like I have already said my opinion differs from this.
However, as for gracing the finest stadiums in the world you have obviously not been watching the Champions league over the last 10 years, as Newcastle have competed and done quite well in that competition in a number of seasons.
Out of interest, do you class Spurs as a big club? Personally I do think you are a big club for the same reasons that I think we are a big club. However, it is some time since your days of winning silverware, and gracing the finest stadiums, so by your own argument you are also not a big club.
February 28th, 2006 at 2:24 pm
i loved the comment spanish sides don’t want newcastle in the draw!!!!
HAHAHAHA
Cause its a shit hole.
JOB DONE LADS, ALL OF THE SILLY NORTHERN MORONS TOOK THE BAIT.
WELL DONE
February 28th, 2006 at 2:28 pm
Have you been to Newcastle Jono?
Why don’t you suggest to your teacher that you take a class trip there?
February 28th, 2006 at 2:42 pm
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
hit a nerve.
Thank You Maglight.
February 28th, 2006 at 3:08 pm
Any supporter with a memory pre-Sky and the Premier League carve-up knows the reality. Newcastle are historically a successful club and undeniably have a big paying support ? at the moment - but they put away the brasso a long time ago. When you start winning pots, then you can make claim about being ?big? again. And since when did appearing in Deloitte?s make you ?big?? All it means is that your club is hooked up to the football gravy train and is ripping off its own supporters ? an odd thing to be proud of.
As for the loyalty and ?best fans in the world? claims? There?s no need to go back into ancient history, as recently as 1991, NUFC?s average home gate was 16,879; that?s after the Italia 90 fashion-victim boom and it means, even allowing for the increase in capacity, that there are a hell of a lot of current SJP season ticket holders who weren?t showing up when things weren?t quite so glitzy. Big support? Maybe. Loyal? Do me a favour.
Since the advent of Corporate Football plc, Toon fans have fulfilled a very obliging role for the marketing men: nutty obsessives who go bare chested when it?s minus 1 and cry on cue for Sky?s cameras when it all goes tits up. They dutifully buy the shirt, put up with carpet bagging directors who make a bundle off the fans wallets and still come back for more. That?s not loyalty, that?s blind faith, that?s football as consumers, not fans. And we?re all mugs, me (Spurs fan) included ;o)
February 28th, 2006 at 3:18 pm
No mistaking Jono is a dood! And full of wit!
But still doens’t prove Newcastle is not a big club!
February 28th, 2006 at 3:54 pm
Roy - I agree, that is a pretty good history. But “pretty good” isn’t quite enough to make you a big club. On another note, Vorderman is looking delightful today. I think she’s lost weight.
February 28th, 2006 at 3:59 pm
Time will tell!
February 28th, 2006 at 4:18 pm
Jealousy is a sad thing, I am Newcastle through and through and I can understand David Fox’s naivety that we are not a big club. For one we have the best fans in the world, and from experience I say this. At the end of the day what is football around for - the people. One of the main pulls to our club is our fans, ok we havent won anything in over 35 years, but quater finals, semi finals, and finals added up in all competitions proves us to be a strong team and are hugley under achieving. When people criticise Newcastle I will automatically defend them as any fan would, but for a team that hasn’t won anything for a long time still attracts the big players - Shearer, Owen, Woodgate, etc so all I can say is its not our fault that you all support teams that are at our standard but can’t attract the calibre we can its called jealousy.
February 28th, 2006 at 4:23 pm
Mikey B are you a jew then
February 28th, 2006 at 4:27 pm
Say wot you see Roy eeeeh!
February 28th, 2006 at 4:44 pm
fair point ross - i’d much rather have players of the ‘calibre’ of boumsong and bramble than dawson and king.
it’s not jealousy btw - i and most others thoroughly enjoyed the asprilla hat-trick against barca and ginola’s stunning goal against ferencvaros or someone
i’d also like to point out that the following sentence is, frankly, sensational. I doubt if Spike Milligan in his pomp could have uttered something more surreal:
For one we have the best fans in the world, and from experience I say this
February 28th, 2006 at 4:58 pm
I think I did previously?!?!
February 28th, 2006 at 6:30 pm
why do spurs fans need to feel jealousy of newcastle? we have had a bad run but it is nothing compared to you mob in the 80s. I have seen my side win competitions…i doubt any magies capable of using a computer can remember the same. In the 80s we had the glamour players and we won not alot but a hell of alot more than you guys have.
We are on the assendancy and you geordies are returning to debt and the lower reaches of the league…ohhh and hire roeder please
February 28th, 2006 at 6:44 pm
The way I see it you need some of the following ingredients to be seen as a big club: large fan base + big crowds, being in the top flight*, regular european competition, big name players, “history” (whatever that means) and winning trophies.
*because otherwise you’re a ’sleeping giant’. (c) Every newspaper.
obviously there’s a certain amount of disagreement on which are needed, how many are needed and so on. I don’t necessarily think the “only attracted 8000 fans to one match in 1978″ type argument is really relevant here. Manchester United weren’t a big club in the 1890s. They are now. The question is “are team x a big club?” not “have they always been”. Same goes for the best fans in the world/ where were you when you were sh1t arguments. In my case, my first season as a Newcastle fan was the 88/89 relegation. And I’d take Shola any day over Frank Pingel.
Obviously, this can’t have been the case for everyone, admittedly. But it’s a different argument altogether and let’s face it, every club has die hards and every club would have glory hunters. Otherwise how come clubs like Cheltenham & Yeading get bigger gates when they’re having a cup run?
So let’s keep the argument strictly to the “what defines a big club” thing, okay? And secondly, let’s accept that people will have different opinions on it, and that they’re ENTITLED to have different opinions on it, until such time as FIFA or UEFA lay out official “big club criteria”.
It’s just a shame you’ve got to wade through the abusive nonsense to get at the proper sane parts of the debate…
February 28th, 2006 at 7:14 pm
Big club = big fan base + big stadium + large financial income
Successful club = lots of trophies.
They are two different things! If Hartlepool suddenly started winning cups would they be a ‘Big’ club? No because being a big club is not to do with success, that is a seperate thing.
February 28th, 2006 at 7:33 pm
You Barcodes do have a huge debt. So you are one of the top clubs in that respect.
Hope this helps.
LOL
February 28th, 2006 at 10:51 pm
Um, Texaco Cup?
Is that the honour that has so far evaded Real Madrid, Barcelona and Inter?
Surely that’s all the proof of the Barcodes’ “big club status” that anyone needs!
What mugs the rest of us are.
March 1st, 2006 at 2:57 am
Maybe they should put all the geordies in a stadium who have seen them win something, you can borrow my front room if you want.
March 1st, 2006 at 3:29 am
Bramble doesn’t actually start for us Don, and Boumsong has been poor i admit, Dawson is actually a geordie, and King is injured. You do at the moment have a much better team for example you must have at least 80 midfielders now to fight for 4 places. Its nice to see Tottenham back up the table better than seeing the same old teams in the top four. Ok you have average fans, and an average stadium, and again you haven’t won anything for a while like us, and name one of your players that can match Micahel Owen’s statistics oh sorry Rasiak was a great piece of business. Even captain Sol Campbell showed you the loyalty to stay. I guess you are just a club that takes on Newcastle rejects Ferdinand, Ginola, etc. Whats the highest bid your ‘big’ club has paid for a player ?8-9m. ?17m Owen, ?15m Shearer, and could have been ?30m Rooney. Nite Sugar Plum
March 1st, 2006 at 9:40 am
Well SOTG - You now look like utter mugs - From the Telegraph below - Read it, go to where the .doc file is stored for the article you published, click on it, drag it to the trash and never let children with no clue about anything write articles for your site again. Does that sound like a fair deal???? Read it and weep.
Chelsea, Manchester United, Arsenal, Liverpool and Newcastle have been named by Premier League officials as England’s biggest clubs. The move is certain to provoke outrage among fans of teams such as Everton, Tottenham and Aston Villa, who have traditionally seen themselves among the elite.
It is also proof of how power in the game has shifted. Sixteen years ago when First Division clubs began discussing the formation of a super league to take advantage of satellite TV, the self-appointed big five were Manchester United, Arsenal, Liverpool, Everton and Tottenham. The decision to select the big five now is one of a series of guidelines agreed with the European Commission for the upcoming auction of the Premiership’s television rights
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHA
March 1st, 2006 at 9:59 am
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
‘could have been’
You just summed up the whole geordie mentality in one sentance.
Thank You Ross
March 1st, 2006 at 10:16 am
11 million barcode for rebrov. ~We have plenty of money and unlike you lot ours is generated by us not via bank loans. Dawson is ours and 10 times better than any of your defenders. Michael owen has done amazing for you played soo many games and scored soo many goals..well done!
You take the piss out of our squad..yet yours is crap..ameoba..bramble..boumsoung (8million ha aha hahaha)…babayaro…lee clark lol…elliot…luque (class buy that one)….need i go on
March 1st, 2006 at 10:16 am
ohh and 7 years for a cup is alot better than 37
March 1st, 2006 at 10:17 am
Come one - someone on this site respond intelligently to the Telegraph article. Explain what exactly these people ,who run the football business of this country, got wrong?
Someone also explain to me why the famous Black & White stripes = Barcodes? Notts Co, the worlds oldest club play in these colours. Its therefore the worlds oldest strip. Anyone who thinks that is a legitimate target for abuse is ignorant of football history.
When the Italians in Torino saw Notts co’s strip, they thought, that looks cool (as Italians do) and changed the juve strip to Black & white. Admittedly, at the time Juve were playing in Pink, so anything was better than that…
Anyone i ever hear saying, Barcodes, I just think, Not a football person. Never played it at a high level, never used to go in the 70s/80s or even 90s, just your basic fool….
You think you’d hear someone actually involved in the game use that term? They would an utter pr***
March 1st, 2006 at 12:38 pm
Ross
Taking your points in order:
1. Who’s your first choice centre-back pairing? To be honest, it’s not your fault that Souness spent so much money on Boumsong!
2. Not sure Dawson’s regional background is relevant. King is carrying an injury but is playing for us - indeed, we may well see him play at some stage tonight.
3. Average fans eh? There is a Newcastle fans’ sight which has us as 3rd highest attendances ever and the only English club never to average less than 20,000 per season. Furthermore, our 1 season out of the top flight in the last 56 years saw us have the 5/6 highest average attendance in the country. A cursory glance here http://stats.football365.com/dom/ENG/PR/attend.html will show that we sell out more than most….
4. ‘For a while’ - 7 years to be precise, which has someone else noted, is hardly comparable with your good selves.
5. None of our current squad can match Owen’s stats, although I’d suggest that in recent history Darren Anderton had a similar injury record!
6.Were Waddle and Gascoigne cast-offs? Ginola didn’t do too badly for us as it happens - better than Stephen Glass and Gerard McMahon (who are ya?)
7. I agree that you have spent lots of money for no reward.
Chez - I’ll respond to the press release in the Telegraph. The decision by the Premier League is entirely money-orientated, and totally skewed in terms of the real debate. I imagine many netural fans enjoy watching Newcastle play because it makes such hilarious viewing - and to be honest, the sight of a bare-chested bald man stood next to a woman whose tear-stained cheeks are running with black and white facepaint is one of the images of modern football.
After all - when did any decision the Premier League make ever involve football, and not money?
March 1st, 2006 at 2:00 pm
Chez Given:
‘Come one - someone on this site respond intelligently to the Telegraph article. Explain what exactly these people ,who run the football business of this country, got wrong?’
Take a look at the words ‘people, football, business’ for your answer.
The bean counters know the price of everything and the value of nothing and have very little understanding of football as a sport, only as a means to make moneyin thes hort term. Football didn’t begin with the formation of the PL and the CL, you know.
March 1st, 2006 at 9:08 pm
I enjoyed our banter Don Jose, I see you never mentioned your sound investment in Sergei Rebrov ?11m million thats almost as funny as Boumsong, and he must take the injury prone award. Putting names like Glass and McMahon in is desperate. Shall I mention Pamarot, Richards, Thatcher, Bunjevcevic, being a few. I personally don’t have a problem with Tottenham, its a shame a bitter fan has to cause problems with something they only read from Jealousy. Im sure you will have a come back but frankly I don’t care. Dry your eyes mate. Sol Campbell says it all.
March 1st, 2006 at 9:13 pm
Jono,
Who the hell are you.
March 1st, 2006 at 9:15 pm
and the end of the day! who are Tottenham? cant appreciate players and are a joke in most of europe for their poor standards of football!
March 1st, 2006 at 9:15 pm
Martin Jol is out shopping in town when he sees an old lady struggling with her shopping?
MJ “Can you manage, love?”
Old Lady: “Up yours Fat Boy, you took the job, you’re stuck with it?”
March 1st, 2006 at 9:16 pm
How many Tottenham fans does it take to change a lightbulb?
None, they’re all happy living in the shadows?
March 1st, 2006 at 9:17 pm
A Tottenham fan is in the Australian outback and he approaches a farmer with a proposition? “Excuse me Sir, if I can tell you how many sheep you have on your farm, can I have one??” The farmer thinks there’s no chance of him guessing so he agrees? “I reckon you’ve got 19,753?” The farmer is amazed as this is the correct number and tells him to help himself, which he duly does. The farmer then says “I need a bit of a chance to get even with you, so if I can tell you what football team you support, can I have my sheep back??” The Tottenham fan agrees and is also stunned when the farmer correctly names the cheating Scum as his favourite team. “How did you know that??” enquires the Scummer. “Never mind how I knew, put my dog down and feck off?”
March 1st, 2006 at 9:22 pm
Ross i agree with you! personally watching the EPL, even though Newcastle are below Tottenham i appreciate watching Newcastle Games Which are much more exciting and show good quality of english football.
March 1st, 2006 at 9:40 pm
I am Portuguese and personally think Newcastle are a better team than Tottenham. I have EPL TV and watch both play regularly and I think Newcastle are a big club and Tottenham are only starting to come from a mid table side.
March 1st, 2006 at 10:16 pm
In response to all the ”2nd largest’, ‘most loyal’ BLAP BLAP BLAP, BEE