Same Old, Same Old – Bleeding Hearts Crying Over Jol
It’s hard to believe that none of us have posted anything to State of the Game in the past six months. Maybe last season took it’s toll, maybe we’ve been flogging our logs elsewhere (and for other competing sites!) or maybe the spark for football just left us a little. The start of the new season always brings a new feeling of hope renewed however and in that frame of mind I’m going to take a pop at a large part of my fellow Tottenham fanbase.
Stop crying over the indignity of Spurs trying to remove Martin Jol behind his back. He is not the new messiah, not the new Keith Burkinshaw, definitely not the new “Sir” Bill Nicholson and, while Mr. Sugar might disagree, he’s not even as good as old “hand in the till” El Tel. The bleeding hearts on internet message boards such as my favourite, From The Lane, have been incensed by the callous attitude of their board and fellow supporters who have long cried the unimaginable truth that Jol is not fit to take us into the hallowed land of the top four (more on that later) or bring home a long awaited trophy. We’d even take the Carling Cup they cry, he won the Peace Cup you know and finished fifth twice in a row and as far as I can make out that’s the sum total of Martin Jol’s talents. He also looks like he’d give you a nice big cuddle which, I’m told, makes him indispensable as a football coach.
I don’t deny that BMJ seems like a “nice” bloke, always ready with a soundbite and a smile in that easy to listen to Dutch drawl but ask his supporters (who have styled themselves as the “real Tottenham fans” in a People’s Front of Judea/Judean People’s Front way I assume) what he brings to the Spurs party and they resort to the old mantra of fifth place. Forgive my overambitious streak but fifth place means nothing to me. “Best of the rest” is a tag meted out by jealous West Ham supporting hacks and gloating Chelsea pressmen to appease their Spurs supporting readership.
Even the much fabled fourth place means absolutely nothing except a few more quid in the coffers but forgive me again for thinking football was about winning trophies, not collecting money like Monopoly. I don’t support any particular company of property developers for that very reason, there is no glory in seeing a bunch of business men accumulating cash. I want to see footballers banging in goals in exciting games and at the end of the day a Spurs captain lifting a piece of silverware above his head to the cheers of the trophy starved Spurs legions.
The aforementioned Mr. Nicholson never made do with second best, fourth best or, God forbid, fifth best and that’s the best that Martin Jol with his nervous, pant wetting attitude to taking on the “big four” will ever bring us. A run to the cup quarter finals until we meet a decent side then out we go and spending �40m to stay in 5th place in the league.
You’ve had a go Martin, you’ve done your best and been a decent bloke but it’s time to move aside and let a winner take us back to where we are supposed to be and all the wailing and gnashing of teeth from those who think 5th in the league constitutes a successful season won’t change the fact that it really isn’t anything of the sort for a club like Tottenham Hotspur.
About the author Alan Hylands
Alan is both a former SOTG editor and former World Soccer editor at the New York Times Company. Football-wise, he wishes he was a younger lovechild of Glenn Hoddle and Diego Maradona (not the short, fat, cokehead, religious nut bit obviously...)
Follow me on Twitter: sotgfootball
Excellent. Summed up the situation perfectly.
I understand the argument your trying to create…but, Martin Jol is a good manager with a lot of talent and with him and the potential of a great career with a potentially title winning team…potentially i say. We need to provide him with the motivation of leading a great team with the fans right behind, through the good times and bad times – we as fans deserve, we also should understand it takes time and we have that – it doesnt happen overnight and doesnt need too – 2 games = seriously?!. To the writer of this article i understand your argument but to a wiser man he would appreciate the positives fall into the majority – like a worthers orginal ad it takes tim son.
yeah great idea lets change our manager every 2 to 3 years if they dont bring instant success. Thats sure to work. If you were in charge of united when fergie was in his 1st 3 years by your logic you’d have fired him. The biggest problem our club has had for years is lack of stability.
True fans realise this and are willing to give Jol the time he needs to produce the goods. And he will I have no doubt about that.
That’s funny, I didn’t think we finished in the top 3 or won a trophy every season under Bill Nicholson. He built two great teams, Burkinshaw built one. People like you dont understand this and make all these remarks and claims that Jol cant do it, whilst he is building his team and you want him out before he’s done it. Two seasons you muppet, that’s all he’s been at Spurs for, and like I’ve said elsewhere already today, it is down to Jol why you can even have the cheek to demand and expect top 4. Cant you get that into your head? If it weren’t for him you would still be dreaming of top 10 or was that a little before your time? He has given us the chance at rubbing shoulders with the top teams in the Premiership and as things continue and time moves on, the quality of team we are fielding improves, and we are getting there, not for your beloved 4th place, but to truly be one of the best teams in the land playing for the title. But oh no, you want to turn your back on the person responsible for sorting the team out from a laughing stock into challengers so easily, so that you can have someone supposedly who will guarentee 4th place, but then probably in two seasons when that hasn’t happened you will wantt o see someone else. That is why we will never get anywhere because people like you and boardroom bigwigs who want to be the big man to inflate their ego’s just have no sense of vision or sense of time. It’s all, it has to be now because they cant see past their own noses and if they had their own way would keep making the same mistake over and over, looking at the greener grass whilst just standing still. Do you want to progress? Well show some patience, respect and a bit of common sense and maybe we will! Or is that too simple and doesn’t quite fit with your obvious love of upheaval and chaos. Martin Jol is you, he is every Spurs fan, so grow up, stop thinking you know more than everyone else and that tactically you have some superior knowledge, and get yourself down to the Bridge. I think it would suit you sir.
Alan, Alan, Alan
I have been following Spurs for over for 35 years now, and can only think of one real season, where we looked like challenging, let alone winning the league, and that was under the manager you didn’t even bother to name. Yes, old cabbie Shreevesy in 84/85.
Unfortunately over the majority of these years we’ve chopped and changed managers like a revolving door. The one thing that this club is crying out is stability. Jol has been in the job less than 3 years, and whatever you say, the one thing we have seen is progress. Yes, I want to be slugging it out at the top of the league, or winning a cup, but football has changed over those 35 years, it is all about money, size of squads. We have seen a hell of a lot of shite, and the club has self destructed on occasions (Sugar v. Venables) But now is not the time to start all over again. What if a new manager doesn’t fancy Bent, Bale or Kaboul – £35m spunked, and an expensive reserve team, as he brings in his own men, and the cycle goes round again.
Jol needs and deserves more time, but I agree we do need to continue to see progress. If that means finishing fifth, and progressing further or winning a cup, so be it – The only way to keep and attract good players is Europe year in and year, and we have been in Europe twice in the last 15 years.
Just remember “You win schum, you lose schum”, has that always been the Tottenham way???
Agreed, nice blokes dont very often make winners. If we can hammer Derby like that why couldn’t we hammer Sunderland because they are just as bad and you can place a big bet that the top 4 sides will give them a hiding.
Top article. Just how i feel. All teams start with “Zero” and finish between 1st and 20th and to challenge the so called “Top Four” we have to stop thinking of them as the top four. It has almost become a mental block, a ceiling, an iron curtain and we have to smash those preconceptions in a flurry of attacking football.
I am a young Spurs Supporter at 27 and i want some glory and do it in style. I want to know what it feels like for those who remember Bill Nic and Arthur Rowe and Danny Blanchflower.. infact in the words of Danny Blanchflower “‘The great fallacy is that the game is first and last about winning. It’s nothing of the kind. The game is about glory. It’s about doing things in style, with a flourish, about going out and beating the other lot, not waiting for them to die of boredom.” Now Martin can you honestly say that is what you bring to Spurs? I feel like i am dumping someone very dear to me but i am sorry, tough tough decisions have to be made.
My only hope is that a new guy also measures success in the same way and plays football in the right way.
Agree with comments on BMJ, but how many ‘winners’ are likely to want to join Spurs considering the considering the resistance they have to paying top money ?
who the f**K are u hyland to comment like this on my beloved club
about billy nick and keith burkinshaw what gives u the wright to write garbage like this in our name did u ever watch a game under them . myself and my friends have watched spurs through thick and thin dont remember your name on euro tours in the 70S -80S going to munich at minus 18 losing 4-1 not seeing a goal thats not your type of game so i see by your remarks not much of a spurs supporter so find some other f*****g team to satisfy your needs !!!!!!!!!!!!!
wicked article, laughing all the way thru, totally agree but still feel guilty about moving big martin on, does football have to be a cut-throat business? probably, but lets be serious then and start winning things, the fans won’t care if we’re employing korean kids as long we’re winning games
Jol may not be Burkinshaw and Venables but, lest we forget, they were two great managers that left Spurs after falling out with the chairman. And look at the good that did us! Spurs fans were pissed off then, so why shouldn’t we protest now?
Spurs’ record under Jol has been the best for 20 years. The season before he took over, we finished 14th. In his first full season, we finished 5th. Jol has done enough to earn the right to see the season out, barring any dreadful dips in form.
One thing Tottenham has been missing is stability. How many managers have we had to endure in the last two decades? How many managers have come and gone in the time ManU have had Ferguson, or Wenger has been at Arsenal? Chopping and changing now isn’t going to guarantee us a trophy any time soon.
You do raise a good point about achieving 5th spot and striving for 4th. It’s a bit sad that in this age attaining 4th spot is seen a the #1 goal for many clubs. However, the game has changed since the Nicholson era. It’s changed a lot. Getting into the Champions League will pour more funds into the Tottenham war chest, will help us keep our best players, and will attract other great players to the team. We all want silverware, but getting a 4th spot is not to be sniffed at.
Other than that, I hope it doesn’t take you another six months to post again.
here here jolly good article…what aboslute nonsense…couldnt agree more with you…tosh..you must be a gooner!
YOU ARE A PRICK AUTHOR
I made the mistake of following the link from newsnow to this article. Another 5 minutes of my time wasted on rubbish.
Just to shut up people like this idot, can we please run a poll. Anyone who thinks this article has a valid point, please register this as a comment.
If you get 1/2 dozen I’ll lop off my Kn*b and serve it to my mum for sunday lunch….
So Alan is so smug being superior to the majority of Spurs fans. I wish I was so sure that I’m right and the masses are wrong. It’s fine to have an opinion but the tone of this ego massaging article is a bit sick. Have a bit of respect for other people’s opinion. It’s not your club but all Spurs fans. having met the late great Bill Nicholson on many occasions over a meal I’m confident that he wouldn’t be proud to be associated with someone with so little respect for others and humility. being a fan means having a difference of opinion with your fellows.
“it really isn’t anything of the sort for a club like Tottenham Hotspur”
and what sort of club is that ? a giant of the game who used to consistently win and / or challenge for the title ? Preston North End have won the title too…
you’re a typical fantasy fan that still believes spurs have a ‘rightful’ place at the top of the english (at least) game. in reality, you’re deluded and one of the key reasons why Spurs are the complete opposite.
Jools
Realistic Spurs Fan.
Ha, you’re in the wrong group, friend.
If you clearly weren’t such a penis, you’d be the sort of reactionary dimwit that gives our club a bad name.
But you are, so, you haven’t.
What a poorly argued critique. BMJ has not yet had his go – he is till working that way. Two fifths are not the end product but they are part of planned move towards some form of longeviety and glory. Mourinho may have had some instant success, but much of the basework and players he had were in place – you can actually track the Chelsea success run back when Hoddle was manager and bringing in the Guillts and Vialli’s. Ferguson never had overnight success even with the so called power that is (was) Man U.
Its about building and progressing and we can all see that we are moving the players who are not going to make it out and that the squad has improved, and continues to do so, under BMJ. Provided this year on year improvement continues, there is no reason to move him aside.
Billy Nick took a few seasons to get his plans right. Burkinshaw went down with us and then back and then a couple of seasons to get to that early 80′s side.
Stick with BMJ and support progression. Have you forgotten how poor we were season on season and with no visible improvement – this nice Dutch man should not have to answer the sort of petty “we are spurs, we should be champions” playcage tantrum- you have to earn things in this world not demand them as some inherent right.
Is this the thoughts of one of the minority of spurs fans who think of themselves as a supporter because they feel they are so worthy to have watched their team win nothing apart from a league cup since the turn of the Premiership. The kind of spurs fan that are happy to have ex spurs legend after ex spurs legend return for a bit of managerial experience before failing terribly. The type of fans whose support revolves around how much they can mouth off at their players when they arent winning. I heard a season ticket holder at the Everton match remark on how he wasn’t coming back until spurs start winning. That type of fan, the type of fan you are, should really give your season tickets away because there are plenty of honest fans who want to support their team and have realistic ambitions and I`d rather have a half empty White Hart Lane than have to share my team with you.
Great article, Alan. Isn’t it time we had something to shout about??
Agree. Better to try and fail, than the nervous, negative ‘let’s see if we can get a draw at Sunderland’ approach.
My only concerns are 1. why now – nothing has changed since Jol took charge when Santini went AWOL? 2. who is AVAILABLE that would be guaranteed to be better?
Hurray! At last some new posting. Let’s hope there’s more to come from SOTG. (And I know I’ve been tardy too.)
I knew it had been a while but even I was shocked to find it was six months since the last post. I’m still very busy writing for About.com but I’m promising to get SOTG back up and running, if not for myself then for the adoring readership (or something along those lines).
In other words, more ridiculous views and rants to come from some old faces and hopefully some new ones as well if I could be bothered opening the books!
Sorry to the commenters who I’ve just been able to approve now – we’ve had some problems upgrading to the new version of WordPress but all should be fine now.
In response to some of the comments above – I’m a fan like any of the rest of you and I write my opinion on what’s happening. I don’t ask that everyone agrees with it and in fact would be disappointed if they did. Smug though? Not sure where you get that from unless giving one’s opinion makes you smug.
I mentioned Nicholson (disappointed to hear he wouldn’t have liked me but glad that bob can speak for the late great man and pass his feelings on from the great dressing room in the sky) and Burkinshaw because they won things, not overnight of course but they looked like they were moving in the right direction and had the potential to go higher. I just don’t see that with Jol at all and nothing in the first three games of the season makes me change my mind.
To the guy who calls me deluded for wanting Spurs to challenge for trophies – I’d rather be deluded than defeatist. If you want to celebrate 5th place like it’s a success then go ahead, personally I feel we might as well finish 17th as 5th for all of the glory associated with it. I want to see signs of progression and the coaching staff learning from past mistakes and being willing to take chances to bring home silverware and I don’t see it.
SotG is back!
I did actually discuss this with the author a few days ago, and as an outsider (a Liverpool fan) I was surprised by his opinion, but can see where he is coming from.
Speaking as a Reds fan (the only position I can speak from) his Alan’s worries strike me a s similar to our issues with Gerard Houllier (and a similar growing view of Rafa) – they don’t see were theat extra jump in class is going to come from.
I would say this though, even if it didn’t come for Liverpool with Evans, Houllier or Rafa (yet), each of those managers instilled a belief (no matter how brief) that the possibility was there. Evans took us within a whisker of the title in ’97, Houllier had the treble and Rafa had the Euro Cup number five… just no Holy Grail.
Jol may provide another good cup run, even a League Cup or FA Cup, but is there a feeling that he can do more? Do the fans really expect more? Do you have a “right” to expect more?
Not questions for an outsider to answer I’m afraid
Bloody fence sitter – of course an outsider can answer those questions! We do expect more and we feel (as any self respecting football fan should) that we have the right to demand success. Bitter experience shows that we don’t always get it but that shouldn’t stop the demand for a potential tilt at the title.
I don’t think a cup run is good enough this year, it has to be a trophy or at the very least the modern day version of a trophy fourth place for the season to be seen as anything other than a waste of time. Silverware is the only thing that counts for me and unless Martin has bought a big book of Fergie and Mourinho’s tactics I just don’t think he has the nous to get us any.
Results can go anyway. It is the tactics that worry you. And Jols tactics against Sunderland, Everton and the last bit of Fulham were terrible